tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post6841713657395957454..comments2023-05-13T12:42:00.360+01:00Comments on PamBG's Blog: Living the GospelPamBGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-21263493260077559882007-10-02T18:31:00.000+01:002007-10-02T18:31:00.000+01:00Peter:Well, I wish that someone would clearly stat...Peter:<BR/><BR/>Well, I wish that someone would clearly state a model of ministry that they favoured and that such a model could be discussed and 'worked with'.<BR/><BR/>What I'm protesting against is the idea that there are certain categories of people who are worth a minister's time and certain categories of people who are not. <BR/><BR/>If you look at Dave's ridiculously tight schedule, much of it is 'soft' in the sense that anyone else could do it. The problem is that ministry isn't always about 'doing'; it's also about 'being'. The people want The Minister at the harvest supper. Sure someone else could 'do' whatever he did, but do you really think 'Sorry, I've worked 64 hours this week and I really need some time alone with my wife so I'm going to skip Harvest Supper' would fly?<BR/><BR/>Especially with people who complain about ministers being lazy and incompetent? I was tempted to facetiously write: 'Bread and butter, socialising, personal, socialising, socialising, bread and butter' against all Dave's items. <BR/><BR/>It's amazing that someone can cogently and accurately state that it's a real problem not being able to separate one's private life from one's work but still see ministers as a law unto themselves.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-18599913040551373102007-10-02T17:07:00.000+01:002007-10-02T17:07:00.000+01:00Pam, I don't think anyone was trying to say that t...Pam, I don't think anyone was trying to say that taking weddings was a bad thing. But in a situation where there are rather few ministers and they are trying to pack in <A HREF="http://42.blogs.warnock.me.uk/2007/10/why-no-blogging.html" REL="nofollow">ridiculously tight schedules</A>, it is surely right for them to look carefully at priorities. And it may well be that they decide that taking weddings for outsiders should not be a high priority, given the large amount of precious time required to do the job effectively and the small benefit to be gained.<BR/><BR/>It would be great if there were enough ministers around that they could spend time just socialising, or chatting without considering whether this is worthwhile. Sadly, there are not enough ministers. And it is unlikely that there ever will be if we are thinking of paid professionals. So perhaps the job of the paid professionals, as in Ephesians 4:12, should be focused more on mobilising and equipping lay people to do things like this - perhaps even including weddings, or at least the preparation for them so that the minister needs do little but take the service.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-71420210113992883462007-09-30T23:24:00.000+01:002007-09-30T23:24:00.000+01:00OK, point-by-point questions here.Anyone who is aw...OK, point-by-point questions here.<BR/><BR/><I>Anyone who is aware of my work over the last forty years will know that I am absolutely the last person to say that the Church should not be active in the community.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm sure that's true. But I do get the feeling that anything that does not finish in 'tangible results' is - at best - not particularly valuable to you and - at worse - a sign of incompetence? Please correct me if I'm wrong. There doesn't seem to be any sense of sowing seeds for the future? <BR/><BR/><I>I achieved a measure of success in secular politics, precisely because I did step out of the confines of the Church.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't really understand what that statement means or what it has to do with the conversation. <BR/><BR/>What never ceases to amaze me is that a person can spend 30 years working in 'the world' and when they become a minister at the age of 50, they suddenly are naive and don't know anything about what 'the real world is like'. That, and we lose all knowledge of sex, so please don't mention the word 'pregnancy' in my presence. ;-)<BR/><BR/><I>However I don't buy this false seperation between the social and personal gospel - that always, always suits the politcal right and it puts our faith into a cosy little box from which it is unable to challenge the status quo.</I><BR/><BR/>Well, we are in agreement there. I can assure you that a good deal of American evangelicalism and the kind of conservative British Anglicanism I left thinks that 'social gospel' is code for 'Doesn't really believe in God.'<BR/><BR/>I'm certainly not trying to separate the two things; I'm trying to keep them together.<BR/><BR/><I>I shan't indulge in a "good works competition" but people of all faiths and none have come to me for support and found it, as many of the people in your home town will tell you.</I><BR/><BR/>It's not my intent to engage in good works competition. I'm simply at a loss as to what your point is or what you want from ministers and from the church. As I'm sure you know - and this isn't even the smallest town around here - people know a person by their works.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-27678874776789056252007-09-30T22:19:00.000+01:002007-09-30T22:19:00.000+01:00Pam, I am really grateful that you are reading my ...Pam, I am really grateful that you are reading my blog and responding to the points I make.<BR/><BR/>Anyone who is aware of my work over the last forty years will know that I am absolutely the last person to say that the Church should not be active in the community.<BR/><BR/>I achieved a measure of success in secular politics, precisely because I did step out of the confines of the Church.<BR/><BR/>However I don't buy this false seperation between the social and personal gospel - that always, always suits the politcal right and it puts our faith into a cosy little box from which it is unable to challenge the status quo.<BR/><BR/>I shan't indulge in a "good works competition" but people of all faiths and none have come to me for support and found it, as many of the people in your home town will tell you.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05295136895729093238noreply@blogger.com