tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post4666387866982653713..comments2023-05-13T12:42:00.360+01:00Comments on PamBG's Blog: Atonement, Justice and ReciprocityPamBGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-21282370017036563222007-04-21T17:29:00.000+01:002007-04-21T17:29:00.000+01:00Apologies for getting Jeffrey John's name incorrec...Apologies for getting Jeffrey John's name incorrect. I will change the post with due acknowledgement.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-16286993019159442072007-04-21T17:27:00.000+01:002007-04-21T17:27:00.000+01:00Peter - Interesting comments, thank you.I think th...Peter - Interesting comments, thank you.<BR/><BR/>I think that God's <I>offer</I> of salvation is to everyone. Because I believe in free will, I have to believe that we can choose to put ourselves outside of the Kingdom of God. But I think that's a choice that we make and not God.<BR/><BR/>I think that "religion" as the world would see it is about designating certain people as being outside the possibility of God's grace. And we all do it, even fuzzy Methodists.<BR/><BR/>I'm not particularly keen on naming who is outside the Kingdom as I don't know what use that is to anyone. Unlike Dave Warnock, I <B>don't</B> actually consider myself to be "evangelical", so I'm not sure how much of an oar I have in that particular stream.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-77083057385313740382007-04-21T11:47:00.000+01:002007-04-21T11:47:00.000+01:00Pam, thank you for this. I have commented on it fa...Pam, thank you for this. I have commented on it favourably on <A HREF="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=152" REL="nofollow">my own blog</A>.<BR/><BR/>You asked in a comment there what my points of disagreement with you are. It comes when you seem to put forward a universalist position in which there is no distinction between the church and the world. I agree that "<I>Christianity is about God's universal offer of grace to all people.</I>" But you seem to infer from this that all people are part of the 'catholic' church, that there is no in-group.<BR/><BR/>I would consider that there is an in-group, but a self-selected one, of those who accept God's universal offer, and sadly excluding those who have never heard this offer because of human failure to tell others about it. Indeed some people have been unhelpful by teaching that the boundaries of the church are rigid, fixed and predestined. But if we over-react by denying that there are any boundaries to the church, we end up losing any distinctiveness and simply become a religious club which most people consider irrelevant.<BR/><BR/>By the way, it is not "Jeffrey Johns" but "Jeffrey John".Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-67888211177809018892007-04-20T10:19:00.000+01:002007-04-20T10:19:00.000+01:00tc, I'm glad you found it helpful; I wasn't sure I...tc, I'm glad you found it helpful; I wasn't sure I was making sense!<BR/><BR/>Sally, yes, indeed there is a lot in that sentence! I've found some of the things that Sykes has had to say about faith very helpful. I have thought for a long time that "decision theology" does make faith a sort of "work". I suspect that, in some sense faith is a mystery.<BR/><BR/>It's interesting that in the wake of the discussion on the Johns talk, we've heard all sorts of protests from the evangelical side of Christianity, but Skyes is the former Principal of St. John's College Durham and, according to what I make of this book, would not disagree with anything that Johns said.<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, I firmly believe that the great revelation of the Christian faith is that God loves everyone and wants everyone to be his child. I suspect that what actually keeps us away from God's Kingdom isn't that we are such recalictrant sinners, but that we don't like the idea of other sinners getting a free ride. <BR/><BR/>Christian theology seems to spend a lot of time worrying about how God deals with people with narcissistic personality disorders when I think that most people simply want to be loved and forgiven.<BR/><BR/>My impression is that, in Methodism, it is less of a "sin" to say "God loves everyone" than in other denominations. And in that heritage, I rejoice.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-57770216077764036282007-04-20T10:16:00.000+01:002007-04-20T10:16:00.000+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-15178685618334616442007-04-19T23:34:00.000+01:002007-04-19T23:34:00.000+01:00Thanks for that. I found it very helpful and I wil...Thanks for that. I found it very helpful and I will read it again a little more slowly when I return from my brief away tripRev Paul Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05294221174324852637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-68622717674898320252007-04-19T23:24:00.000+01:002007-04-19T23:24:00.000+01:00goodness there is a lot in these few words "faith ...goodness there is a lot in these few words "faith is a being present when a revelation takes place"- trying to be present, trying to unpack what that means!Sallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01759963926280667938noreply@blogger.com