tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post2076132775915246656..comments2023-05-13T12:42:00.360+01:00Comments on PamBG's Blog: Sin and Hospital ChaplaincyPamBGhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-8624219266261992362011-12-11T19:20:50.401+00:002011-12-11T19:20:50.401+00:00Allan, unfortunately, my job disappeared after I w...Allan, unfortunately, my job disappeared after I wrote the first post to this blog. I have an interview this coming Wednesday and there is also a chance the previous job might reappear. (Can't give too many details on a public blog, obviously.)<br /><br />I was previously aware of the British Methodist Church's general chaplaincy blog at: http://www.opensourcechaplaincy.org.uk/<br /><br />I Googled "Hospital Chaplain blog" and found Episcopal Chaplain at the Bedside at: http://episcopalhospitalchaplain.blogspot.com/<br />and, through him, The World of Pastoral and Spiritual Care blog at: http://achaplainsjourney.wordpress.com/PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-80755786671879116602011-12-11T17:20:44.898+00:002011-12-11T17:20:44.898+00:00I'm sure they are and I hope you'll blog m...I'm sure they are and I hope you'll blog more about hospital chaplaincy because there seems to be a dearth of such blogs on the internet. Do you know of any and if so do you follow them?<br /><br />AllanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-87407059098329837942011-12-10T04:08:22.979+00:002011-12-10T04:08:22.979+00:00I would say something along the lines of...Of cour...<i>I would say something along the lines of...Of course God is willing to forgive you, waiting to forgive you because God is a God of mercy and boundless love. Forgiveness is his gift to you but like any gift has to be accepted/received by you. And the very receiving of it might change you and and your relationship with the person/people you hurt.</i><br /><br />That sounds like a great response to me!<br /><br />I suspect our points of view are actually very close.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-24456976207104509242011-12-05T13:03:36.776+00:002011-12-05T13:03:36.776+00:00Pam
Of course that would not be my answer. I'...Pam<br /><br />Of course that would not be my answer. I'm sorry not to have answered your question. I would say something along the lines of...Of course God is willing to forgive you, waiting to forgive you because God is a God of mercy and boundless love. Forgiveness is his gift to you but like any gift has to be accepted/received by you. And the very receiving of it might change you and and your relationship with the person/people you hurt.<br /><br />again, my apologies for taking so long to reply. And I do hope hospital chaplaincy gives you as much job satisfaction as it does me??<br /><br />AllanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-67224118194937060202011-11-22T01:00:37.312+00:002011-11-22T01:00:37.312+00:00Absolutely, those things are questions between him...Absolutely, those things are questions between him and God. Absolutely, God can forgive someone before they repent.<br /><br />But what do you say if someone says "I've committed a sin and I'm not going to tell you what it is but do you think that God has forgiven me for it?"<br /><br />I can remember three times in the past twelve months that someone has said that to me.<br /><br />How the heck can I know if God HAS forgiven the person?<br /><br />Seriously, what do you say to that?<br /><br />Authentically, I can say that I believe that God wants to forgive everyone. But when people are walking around with guilty consciences, and they themselves don't think that they have actually repented, equally, who am I to tell them that God has forgiven them?<br /><br />As you say, this is between them and God.<br /><br />And I notice you're evading my question about what you would say to the person? <i>Would</i> you tell a person who was basically asking you "can I get away with sinning and not reform my life?" that sure he can? Because I think that would be a lie.PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-91254622995903918852011-11-21T23:19:51.564+00:002011-11-21T23:19:51.564+00:00Pam
I think I too am having problems communicatin...Pam<br /><br />I think I too am having problems communicating.<br /><br />The answer to your last question is of course'No'. That is not my concern. My concern is that the man's confession and God's forgiveness are matters between him and God. Is it not true that there are gospel instances of forgiveness coming before repentance, of forgiveness leading to repentance? Might that not happen today if we could assure someone of God's forgiveness and love and grace rather than always focusing on repentance first. I'm sorry to go on about this. Maybe my theology is shaky but don't give up on me!!<br /><br />AllanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-79666423841412786402011-11-21T23:19:38.138+00:002011-11-21T23:19:38.138+00:00Pam
I think I too am having problems communicatin...Pam<br /><br />I think I too am having problems communicating.<br /><br />The answer to your last question is of course'No'. That is not my concern. My concern is that the man's confession and God's forgiveness are matters between him and God. Is it not true that there are gospel instances of forgiveness coming before repentance, of forgiveness leading to repentance? Might that not happen today if we could assure someone of God's forgiveness and love and grace rather than always focusing on repentance first. I'm sorry to go on about this. Maybe my theology is shaky but don't give up on me!!<br /><br />AllanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-83986200524091061892011-11-14T01:41:38.782+00:002011-11-14T01:41:38.782+00:00If the chap in ITU spoke to you about having defra...<i>If the chap in ITU spoke to you about having defrauded hundreds of people in some kind of internet scam, presumably he wouldn't be able to confess and ask for pardon from all or any of them.</i><br /><br />I think I'm really having a hard time communicating here.<br /><br />Let's assume for the moment, that he decides to say a prayer of confession to God but he's not actually sorry for what he did, he's just afraid of God. I can pray that prayer of confession with him and he's not going to have any kind of lasting peace.<br /><br />That's not me requiring anything of him. I'm just speaking the truth beforehand: "If you don't really mean your confession, you're not going to find peace. But I do believe that God wants to forgive you."<br /><br />I'm not sure if I'm communicating badly or what.<br /><br />Can you give me an example of someone praying a prayer of confession for something that they weren't really sorry for and deriving any kind of spiritual benefit from it?PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-8827957339272275912011-11-13T23:55:06.278+00:002011-11-13T23:55:06.278+00:00Yes, it would be so much better to have a continuo...Yes, it would be so much better to have a continuous conversation. I suspect that our thinking is probably very similar in fact. I just get worried that sometimes we seem to require too much from the people to whom we minister. Let me give two examples. If the chap in ITU spoke to you about having defrauded hundreds of people in some kind of internet scam, presumably he wouldn't be able to confess and ask for pardon from all or any of them. Equally, in church on Sunday morning, after the prayer of confession there is in the Methodist Church usually a declaration of forgiveness and in other churches absolution etc. We don't require each person to tell us in detail what they are confessing yet we assure them of forgiveness. Do we mean that or is the forgiveness we offer conditional?<br /><br />I'm sorry it takes me so long to get back to you but I'm not online every day.<br /><br />AllanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-72479671688717195722011-11-07T00:23:07.152+00:002011-11-07T00:23:07.152+00:00Allan, it would probably be interesting to have a ...Allan, it would probably be interesting to have a conversation in person! Blogs are not the easiest places to have a conversation.<br /><br />I might not be communicating properly, or maybe I'm not hearing you correctly.<br /><br />Yes, I believe that the father of the Prodigal Son was waiting to greet him with open arms, but the son had to come home first to benefit from his father's love.<br /><br />Another image I use is that God's grace (in this case, God's forgiveness) is like a Christmas present that God puts under the Christmas tree without us asking. But, in order to benefit from what's inside, we have to take the present and open it up.<br /><br />So, say a guy in cardiac ICU who knows he might die tomorrow tells me "I'm really sorry for cheating on my wife and this knowledge is tearing me apart, but I'm not going to apologize to my wife and I'm not going to confess to God."<br /><br />You think I should say to him "That's OK, you can have peace of mind by simply knowing that God forgave you anyway."?<br /><br />To me, that's just a ridiculous thing to say because we all know it's not true.<br /><br />The only thing I can personally say with authenticity is "I believe that God will forgive you, but if you want real peace before you die, I suggest you apologize to your wife as well."<br /><br />Maybe you can tell me what you'd say to such a person?PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-8048737802135851392011-11-07T00:01:09.390+00:002011-11-07T00:01:09.390+00:00Pam:
Well it seems good but I always think about ...Pam:<br /><br />Well it seems good but I always think about the parable of the Prodigal Son where the father called for the best robe etc before the son could express his repentance. And the woman who anointed Jesus...loving much because she had been forgiven much. <br /><br />Do you not think that the church sometimes gets things the wrong way round? And do we as ministers sometimes require from people information, assurances etc which rightly belong between the other person and God? How much do we need to know before we can assure someone that they are forgiven? There seem to be lots of NT examples where Jesus forgave people before asking for evidence of their repentance e.g. the paralysed man or...do I misread/misunderstand the Bible? <br /><br />I don't want to be provocative Pam, and I'm really glad to find a hospital chaplain who is blogging, albeit from across the pond!<br /><br />AllanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-25494932441248474672011-11-04T01:24:35.605+00:002011-11-04T01:24:35.605+00:00Allan:
Yes, I agree with you. I had hoped in the ...Allan:<br /><br />Yes, I agree with you. I had hoped in the post to make that clear.<br /><br />I believe that God stands ready always to forgive.<br /><br />But I don't see how we benefit from that forgiveness if we don't repent.<br /><br />If someone isn't willing to discuss with me how they have repented, I can't assure them that they <b>have been</b> forgiven for that sin. I can only tell them that God does not view their sin as unforgivable.<br /><br />How does that seem to you?PamBGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11324370506889227234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20471270.post-70646757968690471992011-11-04T01:10:47.497+00:002011-11-04T01:10:47.497+00:00Hi Pam
I have been a Hospital Chaplain in a UK ho...Hi Pam<br /><br />I have been a Hospital Chaplain in a UK hospital for the last ten years. I cannot say that too many people have wanted me to hear their 'confession' but I did have one family where the wife/daughter had committed suicide whilst in prison. Her husband was particularly anxious to talk with me and to ask me if I thought that God would forgive his wife. I told him that in my opinion since God is a God of love and abounding in mercy that he would indeed forgive her if she a) asked for forgiveness and b) accepted the forgiveness that was offered. I believe that this is what God's 'grace and mercy' is about. I hope you agree and don't think that I was offering 'cheap grace'???<br /><br />AllanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com